America’s Cup i AC45?

Peter Gustafsson Debate📣 ac45, ac62, americas cup 20

Det tar aldrig slut.

Så fort man är överens om något så skall det ändras. Så har det alltid varit i America’s Cup. Och så fortsätter det att vara.

Efter att man signat Bermuda, så har Oracle kommit fram till att man kanske borde segla i mindre båtar. Troligtvis AC45 eller någon marginellt större. Målet skulle vara att hålla nere kostnaderna.

The competitors and organizers of the 2017 America’s Cup are planning to implement a series of rule changes to dramatically reduce team operational costs, primarily by racing in a smaller boat.
“After reviewing prototypes of the new AC45 sports boats being tested on the water over the past several months, it is clear that if we raced smaller boats in 2017, we could dramatically reduce costs without sacrificing any of the spectacle or the design, engineering and athletic challenge fundamental to the America’s Cup,” said Commercial Commissioner Harvey Schiller.

Frågan var uppe i december, och då lät det så här:

Since the AC62 rule was released, there had been discussion
of making the boat smaller. Is that still under consideration?
Part the way through the venue process, we discussed with the teams downscaling the size of the boats to give us more room to maneuver with some of the venues under consideration. It was quite an intense and robust discussion, with consideration also toward moving these boats around the world, the future of these boats, the costs, and so forth, how many crew they should have. But the teams didn’t vote for downsizing, for various good reasons actually. So anyway, we went through that process and that’s where we ended up, and I think it was – given the information – we’ve made the right decision.

Jag kan se två stora problem.

Det första är America’s Cups roll som “the pinnacle of yacht racing”. Det skall vara en spektakulär segling där det ställs enorma krav på både designers och seglare. Med AC45:or så kommer man inte att kunna se skillnad på AC, Extreme Sailing Series, GC32 Cup, M32 Series eller vilken flerskrovscup som helst med båtar som gör 30 knop och har loggor i seglen.

Volvo har ju samma problem. Racingen blir både bättre och billigare, men det blir inte “the real deal”. På samma sätt som franska soloseglare kommer att segla runt jorden snabbare än VO65, så kommer ett AC i 45-fotare att kännas rejält avslaget.

Visst. Man kan säkert locka 15 team. Men det kommer bara att vara en lånngdragen process för att samma 3-4 team skall göra upp om pokalen.

Jag kan definitivt se vitsen med en nationstävling som Red Bull Youth America’s Cup i likadana AC45. Det var otroligt spännande och välproducerat. Men att Russel Coutts och Nathan Outteridge skulle köra matchrace i samma båtar en vecka senare skulle bli ett rejält antiklimax.

Det andra är processen. Kan man komma överens om ett regelverk med ett antal utmanare, signa upp Bermuda som arrangörsstad och sedan byta båt? Är det ett taktiskt drag? Vill man ställa till det för de andra teamen? Eller är man bara sugen på att tjäna/spara pengar?

Vad tycker ni?

Oavsett vilket så verkar bråket vara igång precis som vanligt.

Team Luna Rossa Challenge is distinctly opposed to the proposal to change the Class Rule for the 35th America’s Cup and therefore the boat that was previously accepted by all challengers on June 5th 2014.
…
If the principle of unanimity of all challengers required to change the Class Rule were not to be respected Luna Rossa will be obliged to withdraw from the 35th America’s Cup.

Även ETNZ verkar vara inne på samma linje:

20 Comments

fredrik
Mar 27, 2015 @ 09:06
Moth…………
Reply
- Peter Gustafsson
  Mar 27, 2015 @ 09:09
  Det hade ju varit det enklaste. Att vi byggde 10.000 foilande entypsmothar och så seglare vi både AC, OS, Bacardi Cup och allt annat i dessa. Problem solved.
  Fast jag vet inte om man gör 50 knop i en Moth?
  Reply
Sam V
Mar 27, 2015 @ 09:50
Det blir värre:
Team New Zealand’s future in the America’s Cup is in serious doubt after the Government confirmed the loss of the qualifying round in Auckland would mean zero funding.
Cup organisers told media this afternoon that Auckland would not be hosting a qualifying round after Team New Zealand opposed a move to smaller boat sizes yesterday.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11424260
Reply
Sam V
Mar 28, 2015 @ 10:22
Korta versionen är att de vill kapa kostnader och få med fransmännen och ett asiatiskt team. Russel tyckte att det gick fort och såg bra ut när Oracle och Artemis foilande AC45:or körde mot varandra förra månaden.
http://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/2015/03/27/americas-cup-adjusting-the-balance/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook
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Peter Gustafsson
Mar 31, 2015 @ 09:19
Ben Ainslies inlägg i debatten: We need an America’s Cup with long-term future and must make changes despite big team protests.
Jag har svårt att förstå resonemanget bakom att man skall göra America’s Cup “kommersiellt gångbart”. Vare sig Oracle, Artemis eller Ben själv finansierar sina projekt med traditionella sponsorer. En klocksponsor på Artemis täcker väl knappt fikat för teamet? Och vill inte TV-bolagen betala för att sända AC72:or så vet jag inte varför AC45:or skulle öka deras intresse?
Oavsett vad man seglar så kommer det att vara miljardärer som slåss om titeln, och det kommer aldrig att finnas utrymme för riktiga sponsorer. De, och publiken, kommer ALLTID att hamna i baksätet när de stora pojkarna skall leka. Man kan tyckja vad man vill om det, men det är så det alltid har varit i AC.
Eftersom Extreme Sailing Series förädlat konceptet under ett antal år, så behöver man ju bara göra ett studiebesök där. Tror Russel Coutts och Ben Ainslie att de kan fakturera sina sponsorer 10 gånger mer för i stort sett samma sak, så tror jag de kommer att få det kämpigt.
När jag tänker efter, så vet jag inte om någon av dem någonsin har drivit projekt som har varit “kommersiellt gångbara”?
Reply
Peter Gustafsson
Apr 1, 2015 @ 07:05
America’s Cup teams usher in new era
Bermuda, 04/01/2015
The America’s Cup teams have agreed to make changes aimed at significantly reducing costs for the 2017 America’s Cup.
Central to these changes is the introduction of an exciting new America’s Cup Class – a wing-sailed, foiling catamaran between 45 and 50 feet.
“The move to the new America’s Cup Class is a major step forward for the America’s Cup,” said Commercial Commissioner Harvey Schiller, following the vote.
“Collectively, the teams have agreed current costs are neither justified, nor sustainable, and a majority have together taken a sensible course of action to cut costs. I believe this puts the America’s Cup on a firm foundation for today and for the future.”
Crucially, the new class will cost much less over the life of a campaign, with potential savings across design, build and operations, making it a revolutionary cost-saving measure for the sport in both the short and long term.
“The changes being made are to reduce the current costs and complexity which are barriers to new teams wishing to enter the America’s Cup,” said Iain Percy, the team manager for Artemis Racing.
A majority of the current teams favored the new class, with the expectation it will be used in the next edition of the America’s Cup as well, in order to lower the barrier to entry – both technological and financial – to new teams.
Looking towards the future, the new America’s Cup Class will put the event on a path towards economic sustainability. Numerous one-design components will focus the design effort on areas that have an impact on performance, cutting costs significantly, but not diminishing the design challenge.
“The America’s Cup – like Formula One – has to be a design race as well as a race on the water,” noted Ben Ainslie, the team principal at Ben Ainslie Racing. “That has always been part of the Cup’s appeal. That is what attracts some of the world’s best engineers – people like Adrian Newey, who has shown a real passion for the design challenge of the America’s Cup.”
“This wasn’t an easy process,” admitted ORACLE TEAM USA skipper Jimmy Spithill. “The established teams, ourselves included, were well down the path of designing an AC62. But there is a bigger picture to consider. We needed to bring the costs down, but we had to respect the design component of the event as that’s always been one of the biggest challenges in winning the America’s Cup.”
The savings the competitors will realize in this edition of the Cup may spark additional entries, with at least one potential team from Asia expected to challenge and other international teams considering their options.
“To be a global success, the America’s Cup needs to be accessible to the best teams, not just the biggest and wealthiest ones,” said Franck Cammas, the skipper of Team France. “So we must change in this way.”
“While it’s true there are a few critics of this move, we have to adjust to the time. This is a rule that provides the essential of the America’s Cup – the design challenge, the sport, the athletic spectacle – without such a prohibitive cost,” said Olympic medalist Roland Gaebler who has been working to establish a German Challenge. “My focus had been on the next America’s Cup but with these changes we may be able to accelerate that.”
The rule changes were passed by a majority vote of the Competitor Forum, comprising the six teams currently entered in the America’s Cup. An updated Protocol and a new Class Rule will be published this week.
A majority of the teams has also now indicated a preference that all of the racing in 2017 be conducted at a single venue, Bermuda. The America’s Cup Event Authority will consider this in nominating a venue for the America’s Cup Qualifiers.
Reply
Allan W
Apr 1, 2015 @ 09:06
Nya bud :-)
https://twitter.com/scuttbutt/status/583138532740345856
Reply
Sam V
Apr 2, 2015 @ 17:31
Luna Rossa hoppar av.
http://luna-rossa-challenge.americascup.com/en/news/204_TEAM-LUNA-ROSSA-CHALLENGE-ANNOUNCES-ITS-WITHDRAWAL-FROM-THE-35th-AMERICAS-CUP
Reply
Peter Gustafsson
Apr 2, 2015 @ 17:58
Jag vet inte… men jag får precis samma vibbar som när Jay Z och Madonna presenterar Tidal (deras egen streamingtjänst för att de tröttnat på Spotify): “Hej, vi är några miljardärer som har kommit på vad som är bäst för er. Vi vet att ni inte tycker det ännu. Och att vi tjänar ännu mer pengar på det här. Men det är bäst för alla. Tro oss…”
http://gawker.com/the-worlds-most-famous-musicians-just-hosted-a-bonkers-1694627052
Det är intressant att läsa vad fansen tycker på Coutts, Spithils och Ainslies Facebook-sidor. Fansen verkar inte särskilt nöjda.
Jag hade inte heller varit nöjd om jag var australiensare. De hoppade ju av som challenger-of-record, just för att det var för dyrt. In kommer Artemis. Och sedan skall man sänka kostnaderna. Osnyggt.
Reply
gurra
Apr 2, 2015 @ 22:06
Så länge foils är tillåtet i ac kan det bara bli bra !
Reply
- Peter Gustafsson
  Apr 3, 2015 @ 09:55
  Så du menar att de lika gärna kan segla i Flying Phantom – det blir lika bra ändå?
  Sedan är AC riktiga klantarsel när det gäller PR. Trodde man att man skulle få mycket sympati när man skickar ut en pressrelease om hur besvikna man är för att Luna Rossa har hoppat av.
  Blev så klart inte som man hade hoppats…
  https://www.facebook.com/americascup/posts/1084143954945370?comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22O%22%7D
  Your arrogance on this issue is astounding! It is like changing the design rules for formula one just before the season starts. The design rule was agreed to with the challengers in GOOD FAITH. To feign surprise that suddenly changing the design rule mid development cycle, results in teams pulling out is disingenuous. Your actions only show that you as an organisation are either grossly disorganised, naive, or not to be trusted. tick which ever boxes are applicable. You are a disgrace to international sport.
  På ETNZ Facebook så är det många fans som tycker att de skall starta eget tillsammans med Luna Rossa. Det hade ju varit intressant att segla AC i AC45 men där ETNZ och Luna Rossa möts i AC62:or :-)
  https://www.facebook.com/EmiratesTeamNewZealand/posts/994994410525611?comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22O%22%7D
  Reply
  - Sam V
    Apr 4, 2015 @ 00:38
    Eller varför inte Gunboat G4, den är på väg upp.
    Väldigt trist utveckling. Undrar hur stort tålamodet är för att göra AC kommersiellt gångbart. World Series är nyckeln, särskilt med fleetrace. Men World Series måste i så fall ha en kontinuitet och tv-sändningar av AC34-klass. Förra gången ställdes flera event in pga kostnaderna. Knappast billigare nu.
    Sedan ska det kulminera i AC, le grand finale, the pinnacle of yacht racing, i tre fot längre båtar som är semientyp. Fyra fot över minimigränsen i Deed of Gift. Hmm.
    Att Luna Rossa lämnar är en stor förlust, och jiddret med TNZ gör det inte bättre. Bad politics.
    Reply
Peter Gustafsson
Apr 8, 2015 @ 23:18
Bra analyser på Cat Sailing News.
Last cup the AWCS was introduced with the idea that the newly introduced AC World series could transform the AC syndicates in commercially viable pro teams, that’s why the Peyron brothers dared to invest Private money into their Energy campaign. These series failed to the max. It could not attract the big networks and the big audience. The first events were covered very professionally but were only watched live by me and my beachcats friends.
There is certainly room for pro series on big foiling cats, which even can be smaller than 48 foot. The GC32 does well and personally I would prefer a 30 foot by 20 foot boat (an F1 car is smaller than a street car!) The ACWS failed because it was not an open event. The teams had to commit to the full AC cycle and had even to pay performance bonds. In practice it meant that you needed sponsors willing to commit 50-60 million euros at the beginning of the cycle. A scenario set up to fail for event with a 2-3 year cycle in which has only media relevance outside the sailing community during the last week of the cycle.
The costs of an AC campaign is only marginally related to the size of the boat. In the last Cup both ETNZ and Oracle were believed to have spent over 100 million euros of which ‘only’ 5 milion is needed to build the beast. Bringing building cost down to half a million does not significantly change the amount of money the top team will burn unless you indeed go to OD boats.
Reply
Peter Gustafsson
Apr 11, 2015 @ 10:25
Den legendariska seglingsjournalisten Bob Fisher är inte nöjd:
13th April 2015
Gentlemen,
I cannot escape notice of what you are doing to the America’s Cup – it has been nothing short of a disgrace to the premier event in the sport of Sailing. You have abused it, misused it and reduced it to no more than an average regatta, losing on the way its prestige and at the same time driven away the most serious competitors.
In the last America’s Cup event, held on the waters of the Golden Gate Yacht Club, for whom you act in a management role, the two challengers that came up to the mark were those from the Royal New Zealand Yacht Squadron and the Circolo della Vela Sicilia – Emirates Team New Zealand and Luna Rossa. In the course of the past week you have made it virtually impossible for ETNZ to raise the necessary funds to continue by removing any chance of a major regatta in Auckland, and, by a huge change in the size of boat, caused the Italian team to withdraw. Is this what you really want?
Gone is all semblance of stability and adherence to rules unanimously agreed at the outset and in their place an undercurrent of commercial misunderstanding and constantly changing rules without the unanimity of the challengers as initially agreed. Both of these are a disgrace to the Cup and to yourselves.
It was brought to my notice by you (S-W: Russell Coutts), in Auckland, that it was important for a part of the Challenger Final Selection Series to be held in the City of Sails in order to generate publicity for the America’s Cup in Asia and the reason for that was a Japanese team would shortly emerge, and that this would encourage television networks to purchase the rights.
Subsequently ACEA has made it clear that ALL Challenger Selection races will be held in Bermuda, effectively slapping ETNZ in the face and reducing the Kiwis’ chances of Government sponsorship (which hung on a major AC regatta in Auckland), possibly even eliminating this team from AC35
It is unnecessary for the America’s Cup to have a television audience. For many years there was no television coverage, and later only inserts into News programmes. Televising the event began in 1983 and was carried to a new height by ESPN in 1987 in Fremantle. Even then it didn’t need catamarans on hydrofoils sailing at 40 knots to be attractive – just 12-Metre yachts in boisterous conditions with some live sound from the boats.
Now, thanks to the wizardry of Stan Honey and his colleagues, full details of the speed and direction of each of the competitors is overlaid on the live pictures of the racing. The technology of other sports has improved television for even the non-sailor, but this does not drive the America’s Cup. Money does. And there will certainly not be enough from television rights to pay for the somewhat unnecessary regattas that take place using the name of the event that has, over 164 years, taken place only 34 times.
The America’s Cup is a one-off event. It does not need promoting with pseudo regattas in the intervening years, which use its name. The Challenger Selection Trials, together with the long lost Defender Selection Trials, are adequate and the responsibility for their expense is down to the individual teams.
Now there is a state of affairs in which the Defender trials have been eliminated. In the Protocol, Item 17 clearly states:
“Defender means GGYC and the sailing team that represents GGYC in AC35;”
You have excluded any chance of another US Yacht Club from competing for the Cup, maybe even giving GGYC the type of competition it needs to retain the Cup. Not even the New York Yacht Club felt sufficiently confident to resort to that.
Neither did the NYYC resort to changing the boats at a late date – the move from the AC-62 to the AC-48 has been very last minute and particularly hard on the teams that had set up their design groups well in advance to produce the smaller AC-62, as announced soon after the last AC match. It is hardly surprising that you have put Patrizio Bertelli’s feelings in disarray to the extent he has withdrawn Luna Rossa from AC35. His team had been working since early January 2014 at its headquarters in Cagliari with a Design Office of 40, all working on the design of a 62-footer. I suppose you comment will be: “Silly him,” but you have lost one of the biggest commercial sponsors of the Cup – just look where the Prada advertisements for Luna Rossa appear.
To throw fat on the fire, you are offering to give design and financial support to the French team, which has made little progress, and what is worse attempting to justify this with the terms of the Deed of Gift, where it indicates that the event is to be: “a friendly competition between foreign nations.” But you may well counter this with the quote from the judge of the New York Court of Appeals in the case between the Mercury Bay Boating Club and San Diego Yacht Club, who queried: “Where in the Deed of Gift does it say the America’s Cup is supposed to be fair?”
The loss of Louis Vuitton, after 30 years, is another huge loss of commercial sponsorship, but the writing for that was on the wall in San Francisco.
Everything this time around has been late, and bringing in new entries at this stage is another breach of the Protocol. I implore you to get your act together, remember the event with which you are dealing, with its glorious past, and begin to act in a proper manner.
Bob Fisher.
Reply
Peter Gustafsson
Apr 13, 2015 @ 07:48
Ju mer jag läser mellan raderna så framstår det också som att banorna på Bermuda blivit mindre än vad man trodde, och därför inte pallar en AC62. Det var först efter att Ben Ainslie började träna på Bermuda som storleken på båt blev en het issue.
Fast pengarna styr ju var man seglar – som styr vad man har för båt. Omvänt.
Ernesto Bertarelli på LX Sailing.
The AC 48 is an interesting boat but registration costs for the AC have become higher than the boats…! It’s just a shame that the organizers can’t establish clear and transparent rules. I don’t know if they mean this, but the way they run things is quite obscure… Today, they want to revert to smaller boats; perhaps tomorrow they will do the opposite.
I am amazed to observe that they managed to upset Patrizio Bertelli, who played such an important role in the modern America’s Cup. It proves that Alinghi was right to pull out. Bertelli spent several tens of millions of Euros to develop a new boat and suddenly he is being told he did it for nothing…
I love the America’s Cup, I have won it and it will be part of me forever, so of course I follow what’s happening. But it is disappointing to see what’s happening. Just think about the fact that they decided not to respect the rules of ISAF! This is an open door to any sort of trouble. It’s very disappointing.
There needs to be a proper Defender and a proper Challenger. That’s the base of the America’s Cup: two yacht clubs challenge each other and decide – together – the rules of the event. However, in the last two editions, the Defender chose a challenger that withdrew soon after, leaving full control to the Defender. I therefore ask a question: can we still call this the America’s Cup when it doesn’t follow the basic rules of the event?
If I was the Defender, I would call the strongest teams – Emirates Team New Zealand or Luna Rossa Challenge – and ask them to become the Challenger of Record. Today, people like Bruno Troublé say it’s a beach event that smells of french fries… It’s his opinion but when someone like him makes such comments, it means there is a problem.
I am happy I don’t find myself in Patrizio Bertelli’s place. I’ve had my share of frustrations, but now I have turned this page. My history with the America’s Cup ended in 2010. It might start again one day, for example if the kiwis win the Cup and put fair rules in place. But not today!
Reply
Sam V
Feb 14, 2017 @ 08:45
Dags att skaka liv i lite AC trash talk. Nu börjar de nya femtiofotarna inför AC bli klara. Emirates Team New Zealand har just testat och avslöjar en stor hemlighet – de kommer trampa med benen istället för att veva med armarna för att hålla trycket uppe. Återupplivning för Pelle P och hans lösning på tolvan Sverige 1977. Vilket kändes helt rimligt då men togs bort till Cupen 1980 vill jag minnas. Varför minns jag dock inte.
http://www.sail-world.com/NZ/Americas-Cup—Emirates-Team-New-Zealand-reveal-big-AC50-breakthrough/151751
Reply
Pelle Pedersen
Feb 14, 2017 @ 08:53
“Guldtian” måste jag lägga på Artemis!! Man är ju svensk! :)
Vinner inte Artemis hoppas jag på BAR!! Vilket tryck det hade blivit i England om hade fått “hem” AC!!
Reply
Jeppe
Feb 15, 2017 @ 09:55
Jag tycker det ska bli grymt! :)
AC34 var den bästa segling jag sett och bland det bästa i sportväg öht.
Hoppas på lika spännande stunder i soffan.
Reply
Sam V
Feb 20, 2017 @ 18:49
Mer om ETNZ och deras val att trampa upp trycket. Intressant för alla AC-nördar därute. Nu har vi drygt tre månaders spekulationer, nörderi och trash talk att se fram emot!
http://www.sail-world.com/NZ/Americas-Cup—Glenn-Ashby-on-why-Emirates-Team-NZ-went-cycling/151890
Reply
srsseglaren
Sep 14, 2017 @ 16:58
Nästa Americas Cup det 36:e blir i foiling monos:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-sports/96708812/americas-cup-to-be-raced-in-foiling-monohulls-confirms-italian-challenger-of-record
Reply

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